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| CLIFTON RATCLIFF
07-12-2009 12:56:35
72.9.93.46
20681
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we are considering a tractor buying trip. we got our eyes on a new holland 8360. or john deere 2955 2950 3250 6420 6410 all of these are at auction we plan to look at them a day early and give them a close look. what"s ya"lls opion on these choices fuel and reliabilty are a factor we consider these will have to pull a five foot baler and 12 foot diskbine along with 12 ft"
disk and other equipment for 110 acres of wheat
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| Heavyduty1
07-22-2009 17:18:24
67.232.31.243
20726
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Re: used 100 h.p. tractor purchase in reply to RodInNS, 07-12-2009 12:56:35
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dwrk said: (quoted from post at 01:47:29 07/20/09) Any of them should be able to run your discbine, safety on hills is a different story. First two years we had our Hesston 1340 the biggest tractor we had was an AC 6080 at 83hp. It would run it fine but wasn't heavy enough to hold the discbine back on hills, going down hill backwards jacknifed got old after the first few times. Also ran it on my neighbours 2wd Case 1690, that was about as bad. Run it on a JD 7510 now and that's about right.
The JD 6400s had really underpowered cooling systems. 6410s were only slightly improved, got a 2 year old 6420 now with 2400 hours on it and it overheats just as much as the old 6400 we put 18,000 hours on it. Have to blow it out every 2 hours some days if we're hauling hay or straw.
Never seen a 3250, the 6420 is 90 hp, other JDs are all only 85. I'd look for something a bit bigger, 7510, maybe a 7400 |
What about the 4050-4055 with 105 pto hp? Nice tractors that hold resale value incase you need to downsize or upsize in the future.
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| dwrk
07-19-2009 17:47:29
142.46.4.94
20720
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Re: used 100 h.p. tractor purchase in reply to CLIFTON RATCLIFF, 07-12-2009 12:56:35
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| Any of them should be able to run your discbine, safety on hills is a different story. First two years we had our Hesston 1340 the biggest tractor we had was an AC 6080 at 83hp. It would run it fine but wasn't heavy enough to hold the discbine back on hills, going down hill backwards jacknifed got old after the first few times. Also ran it on my neighbours 2wd Case 1690, that was about as bad. Run it on a JD 7510 now and that's about right.
The JD 6400s had really underpowered cooling systems. 6410s were only slightly improved, got a 2 year old 6420 now with 2400 hours on it and it overheats just as much as the old 6400 we put 18,000 hours on it. Have to blow it out every 2 hours some days if we're hauling hay or straw.Never seen a 3250, the 6420 is 90 hp, other JDs are all only 85. I'd look for something a bit bigger, 7510, maybe a 7400
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| Tx Jim
07-17-2009 04:15:50
67.142.163.23
20714
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Re: used 100 h.p. tractor purchase in reply to RodInNS, 07-12-2009 12:56:35
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| RodinNS
Thanks for your excellent explanation of CCLS or PFC.
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| KYfarm
07-16-2009 12:21:14
74.128.24.86
20710
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Re: used 100 h.p. tractor purchase in reply to CLIFTON RATCLIFF, 07-12-2009 12:56:35
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| i have had a JD2950 and it will NOT pull a 12ft. discbine, no way. That and a 2955 are more like 85 PTO hp unless somebody has added a turbo. The 6410 and 6420 are only 4 cylinders and also are not rated 100 PTO hp but I cannot say if they will run your discbine or not, haven"t run one. I"m thinking that the 3250 probably would run it, same 6 cylinder as in my old 2950 but with a turbo.
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| low budget
07-17-2009 05:37:29
170.215.213.62
20715
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Re: used 100 h.p. tractor purchase in reply to KYfarm, 07-16-2009 12:21:14
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| I was thinking the same thing. I dont know anything about the Ford, but the Case 1070 he has now is rated at 108 hp and has a 451 cubic inch engine with lots of torque. A tough act to follow engine wise.
The Deere utility tractors sometimes seem to be a bit marginal on cooling capacity under heavy loads too.
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| RodInNS
07-17-2009 09:43:20
216.118.158.123
20716
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Re: used 100 h.p. tractor purchase in reply to low budget, 07-17-2009 05:37:29
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| | 456 turbo in the newholland. I'm thinking 110-115 rated hp and they generally overperform some tho I'm not sure what the test was on that one. Rod
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| Tx Jim
07-16-2009 04:13:35
67.142.163.21
20705
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Re: used 100 h.p. tractor purchase in reply to Mike M, 07-12-2009 12:56:35
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| RodinNS
A Ford 5610 is the one I received my introduction to open center/closed center hyd's on the same tractor.
Please explain the difference in JD's closed center system and NH CCLS.
What do you mean when you state "All the advantages of variable displacement/closed center with a system that can unload itself when there's no demand"?
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| RodInNS
07-16-2009 05:32:18
216.118.158.123
20706
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Re: used 100 h.p. tractor purchase in reply to Tx Jim, 07-16-2009 04:13:35
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| The Ford's of that day were technically open center systems except that they used CCLS valves... so in that sense they were closed center WITH load sensing.
The vintage Deere's used a radial piston pump... as you know. When there was no demand they destroked at high stand-by, always maintaining system pressure. IF there was a leak anywhere, the pump would go to stroke and try to plug the hole...The newer systems are often called CCLS. They are more properly called PFC or Pressure Flow Compensated. They use the same remote valves as the Ford's did... which is to say that they are closed center with load sensing... and the same as the Ford's, if you don't activate a valve, there is no flow to the valve. The system is at rest.
The main difference is that this system uses a variable displacement pump like the old Deere's in combination with a pressure compensated flow control.
Wheras the Deere would stroke with a pressure drop, these systems have their stroke controlled by the PFC valve. When a remote is activated, that creates a pilot flow (demand) signal to the PFC valve which then directs oil to the stroke control on the pump. The more demand, the more it strokes the pump. It can run at high standby like the old Deere's if you tie the remote off so it maintains demand... but the main difference is that when you kick the remote to neutral, the pilot flow is cut off, demand ceases and the pump again returns to a destroked position.
It is supposed to be a more efficient system in that it allows thigns to relax and lower the power requirement along with reducing stress on the system.
The main failing I've seen with that generation of Deere's that existed around here was high pressure leaks from that system... somethign that's more or less removed in the PFC system.
That's not to condemn the old system. It's been around on those tractors for the best part of 50 years, but time has overtaken it.
Deere went to PFC about 20 years ago if I'm not mistaken... Rod
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| Tx Jim
07-15-2009 04:39:49
67.142.163.38
20702
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Re: used 100 h.p. tractor purchase in reply to HAYBOY1, 07-12-2009 12:56:35
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| RodInNS[/quote]The newer models are most likely closed center load sensing (CCLS) which is more complicted.
I've worked on JD closed center hyd's and Ford/NH CCLS hyd system and would rather repair a JD any day than a Ford/NH with CCLS. I suppose it's all about opinions. When it comes to the hydraulics Waterloo built JD tractors aren't as troublesome as Dubuque/Mannheim built JD tractors when it comes to the hydraulics
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| RodInNS
07-15-2009 05:27:48
216.118.158.123
20703
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Re: used 100 h.p. tractor purchase in reply to Tx Jim, 07-15-2009 04:39:49
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| The older Deere closed center system was simple... It was also costly to fix, or to at least fix it right.
The biggest problem I see with them is that the system is never at rest and constantly given to overheating if it starts leaking or you do a lot of heavy hydraulic work with it.Ford had their problems with load sensing valves on the 10 series systems as they were quite complicated... but if you go to the true closed center, variable displacement, load sensing systems that they use today I believe you get a pretty good system. All the advantages of variable displacement/closed center with a system that can unload itself when there's no demand.
That was the failing of the Manheim Deere's around here... and these Deere's he's looking at are all Manheim tractors. I'd not particularly hold that against them if they'd do the job tho. They're still pretty good tractors. The ones I see around this area, in spite of their hydraulic troubles... have given little trouble otherwise and all have high hours. Rod
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| low budget
07-16-2009 07:14:13
170.215.214.112
20707
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Re: used 100 h.p. tractor purchase in reply to RodInNS, 07-15-2009 05:27:48
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| You are correct that the utility (Manheim) Deeres are prone to hyd problems, but I have found its usually leaks in the low pressure (transmission)system.
The transmission pump is a gear type open center pump that provides oil under controlled pressure (about 175 psi)to apply the pto clutch and HiLo clutch, oil not used for those functions supplies the main pump, and then goes on to the cooler and supply the brake reservoir and transmission lubrication.
Too much leakage = no hydraulics, possible loss of brakes, and lack of trans lubrication. Lots of internal lines and O-rings for leakage to develope. Any leakage in the main hyd makes things even worse.
I much prefer the simple system my Ford 5000 and 7700 have.
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| RodInNS
07-16-2009 10:32:54
216.118.158.123
20709
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Re: used 100 h.p. tractor purchase in reply to low budget, 07-16-2009 07:14:13
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| Mostly 3130's and 40's that I've seen around here. They've been plauged by both high and low pressure leaks. I think it's a coin toss as to which is worse on this bunch that a couple of guys own as I think every one has had several of both.
To be fair, the Ford's can get leaks in their low pressure clutch circuits too. I've had a few of them on my own... Blown O-rings, bad regulating valves, cracked tubes and such things and nearly the only way to find some is by pulling the lift cover, diverting the main pump flows... and run it to find the leaks.Rod
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| CLIFTON RATCLIFF
07-14-2009 19:27:11
67.207.230.213
20701
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Re: used 100 h.p. tractor purchase in reply to CLIFTON RATCLIFF, 07-12-2009 12:56:35
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| thanks for the opions i'm am curently pulling it with a 1070 case it does a fine job but at its age it bound to die soon and we are trying to upgrade to something thats got less hours the case has rolled over and is starting over its bleeding ome and has been wrecked in the grill. we are concerned bout it clogging up the rad. and running hot in the hay field.
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| RodInNS
07-14-2009 13:34:53
216.118.158.123
20697
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Re: used 100 h.p. tractor purchase in reply to CLIFTON RATCLIFF, 07-12-2009 12:56:35
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| None but the 8360 will run the discbine and that will probably be sucking it's hole pretty good with 12 feet. I forget now if it's turbo'd or not but it could probably be wound up a bit without much issue if it has a turbo.
The older Deere's on your list are true closed center tractors... and are somewhat known for high pressure leaks and other hydraulic maladies. That said... just about anything of that day could have hydraulic problems. The newer models are most likely closed center load sensing (CCLS) which is more complicted... but not so prone to leaking as the pumps destroke when there's no demand.
Beyond that I wouldn't be particularly scared of any of those tractors... just that the 8360 is the mostl likely to perform on the discbine followed by the 3250.Rod
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| Ken Macfarlane
07-14-2009 11:14:31
156.34.142.102
20696
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Re: used 100 h.p. tractor purchase in reply to CLIFTON RATCLIFF, 07-12-2009 12:56:35
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| The 8360 is a well respected machine. The JD's you listed, the first 2 I think is known for hydraulics issues and I don't think are gonna pull a 12 ft discbine. Actaully with 100 hp I hope your ground is pretty flat.
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