Topic: Chinese tractors...what's the scoop?
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| D.L.
05-10-2002 22:32:36
209.99.118.69
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Hello,I'm new here and to tractors in general (looking to purchase my first one). I currently only have 5 acres to hog and an 800 foot long gravel driveway to maintain, however I expect to be handling 30+ acres in about 3 years when I retire from the Air Force and head to Pennsylvania, so I want to buy something now that will be up to the job once I do move. I've been shopping around for used tractors and doing tons of reading on the net. Frankly, at this point, I'm considering buying a new tractor as used ones seem to be gold plated here in this part of Texas (near San Antonio). A fairly beat up Ford Jubilee goes for about $5000+ here. Even 8N's are close to $4000. Thus, I have turned my eye to something else. Currently I am interested in the Mahindra tractors. They seem to be well made, heavy and have decent features for the price. I'm considering a 4110 model with a loader and shredder, but not really sure I need a loader. If not, then the 2WD 4500 model and shredder. I have also looked at the Chinese made tractors on the net. Of course, anyone loyal to the big name U.S. tractors tell me I'm crazy and to "buy American"...and this is where I am having a problem. Seems from all I have read that nearly all 40HP and under tractors these days are made in China, Korea or Japan and imported and decaled under the big names. Everyone touts parts and service as a problem, but I don't understand. If the tractors are the same, only in a funky color and some weird name I can't read stuck on it, then it's the same, right? I read that John Deere has some small tractors with Yanmar engines, or Massey Ferguson has some korean engine, etc. Surely if these guys can get and have parts, then I can get those parts for the same engine, eh? Anyone have any good or bad stories about the Chinese tractors? Thoughts, opinions? I'm still leaning toward the Mahindra, primarily because of cost. It's either a 40HP Mahindra, or a lesser powered "U.S." brand. I'm looking to spend in the $14,000 range.
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| D.L.
09-14-2002 23:26:07
209.99.118.78
5193
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Re: Chinese tractors...what's the scoop? in reply to D.L., 05-10-2002 22:32:36
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| | Well, it's been a while fellas, but I believe I have found my tractor!!! Not going to buy a new one, simply can't afford it now that I just bought a 2002 Dodge RAM Quad cab for me a Chrysler Sebring LXI for the wife .A fella down the road has a decent David Brown 885G. 42HP, hi-lo range tranny (12 forward and 3 reverse gears, plus creeper, power steering (YAY!), rear hydraulic remote also (not that I need it), and 2-stage clutch (YAY again!). New high-back seat, new alternator (a one-wire conversion), new water pump, rebuilt carb. All fluids and tanks flushed, cleaned and new fluid replacement (even the gas tank). It only has 1500 hours on it. It did sit for about 5 years before he got and cleaned it up (old gentleman that owned it died and son didn't want it). Overall, it's a very nice little tractor, although it could use some paint touch-up here and there...but not a big deal. I can get the tractor and a brand new Bea Rice very heavy duty 6' shredder (channel iron sides, thick plate deck, and floating linkage)...the whole package, out the door for $4400. I've only looked at the tractor so far, going down tommorrow to fire it up and test it out. Anyone know anyhting about the D.B. 885G??? Any nasty habits it has? Bad reliability? I know it's actually "David Brown/Case" and I know parts are pretty easy to get for it (I've been calling around and looking on the net), but just curious to hear from someone that knows these tractors....if it has any notorious, or chronic problems, I might shy away from it. as usual, thanks for all the great input.....
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| Bob
05-16-2002 11:05:01
208.171.153.106
4280
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Re: Chinese tractors...what's the scoop? in reply to D.L., 05-10-2002 22:32:36
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| Something else to think about. You know the area in Pa. you are going to be in, you might want to find out what dealers are in this area. If you buy a new tractor and ship it to Pa. in three years and have no dealers around I can't see where you gained anything. Just speaking for myself, I tend to buy whats handy for me other than a specific brand. I have an Agco dealer and a Kubota dealer within a 40 minute drive from my house. I own 3 Allis and 2 Kubotas. Happy with all of them.
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| John in Maryland
05-13-2002 20:04:21
66.56.220.94
4267
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Re: Chinese tractors...what's the scoop? in reply to D.L., 05-10-2002 22:32:36
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| If you get a tractor with an independent pto, you don't need a 2 stage clutch, which can be expensive when needing replaced, depending on the tractor. If you did get a tractor with out one, an over-riding coupler, which sells for about $60 or so from most dealers or most any place that sells old tractor parts, allows you to push the clutch in and shift gears, while the pto slows down, with out any effect on the shifting of the gears, it's like the same as if you never had the pto on in the first place.
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| david
05-14-2002 12:01:42
205.204.243.21
4270
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Re: Re: Chinese tractors...what's the scoop? in reply to John in Maryland, 05-13-2002 20:04:21
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| | I agree with the earlier post about getting a good lawn tractor now and then a "real" tractor when you get to PA. If you are looking new the S series New Hollands are nice, and reasonable. While it is true that a lot of companies buy tractors and parts from somewhere else you still have the dealer and warehouse support network backing these parts. Also, when you move to PA you will be lot closer to those "cheaper" KY and TN tractors someone mentioned. Example: I could deliver a 1210 Case to PA for about $7200 from KY. I wouldn't try to haul to Texas.
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| D.L.
05-14-2002 15:11:57
209.99.118.108
4271
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Re: Re: Re: Chinese tractors...what's the scoop? in reply to david, 05-14-2002 12:01:42
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| | A lawn tractor (pardon the pun) won't cut it ;-) I have a lawn tractor now (and have since I've lived here). I've mowed the field with it several times, but it doesn't do well. I can't let it grow more than a few inches, or the lawn tractor can't handle it at all. In order to maintain the few inch mowing, I'd be mowing this thing every 4-5 days (there's a lot of coastal grass in my field and that stuff grows an inch or more over night, especially when it rains). I need a bush hog, plain and simple. I suppose I could find an old 8N or the like and a cheap bush hog...that would certainly get the job done, but then there is the ditch problem (hence my desire for dual clutch, or independent PTO) and I really, REALLY want power steering. The older tractors don't provide that usually, and the ones that do cost nearly as much as a new tractor in this area. Secondly, if I do go with something that will simply "make do for now", then I have the problem of selling it and then getting another tractor in PA. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me the best thing to do is just go ahead and get one that will meet my needs both here and in PA right off the bat. I dunno, that's how I see it right now. I'm still looking and still listening though :-)
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| Mrudula Engineers
08-18-2002 06:44:01
203.199.166.24
4926
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Chinese tractors...what's the scoop? in reply to D.L., 05-14-2002 15:11:57
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| We are interested in 14 to 16 HP Power Trailer & 25 to 40 HP tractors . Kindly offer your best possible price & minimum consignment to be procured . Prices should be FOB Navasheva Post Near to Mumbai , India .Our Telephone Nos & address as below :-
Mrudula Engineers
Ground Floor , Yogesh Coop Society ,
Ram Maruti Rd (Ext), Naupada
Thane- 400 602
India
Ph :-91-22-5447693;5407707
Fax :-91-22-5378427
Contact Person : Mr. Kiran Mehta General ManagerWe are also interested in farm equipments & Seed machinery . Please give us complete details
Regards
Kiran Mehta
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| Gerald J.
05-15-2002 19:37:05
63.175.164.235
4277
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Chinese tractors...what's the scoop? in reply to D.L., 05-14-2002 15:11:57
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| | I've owned an 8N. I don't any more. I used it with a bush hog once. Lack of weight and lack of overrunning clutch made mowing with it too d... exciting. I have a MF-135 now that for about the same price as an 8N with twice the weight and nearly twice the HP has 12 speeds foward, 4 reverse, and power steering. Some days its for sale. I'm in Iowa though and hauling would be a pain to Texas or PA. It has relatively new (in terms of hours) clutch plates for both the drive and the PTO clutches and near new rear tires. The double clutch allows for PTO continuing to run while stopping the tractor. I've used it with a 9' mower conditioner in heavy alfalfa at 4 to 5 mph. Its more than twice the tractor of an 8N. It plows and disks decently. The 8N spins and digs holes. Gerald J.
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| Bob Semrau
05-11-2002 19:33:04
205.188.199.173
4262
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Re: Chinese tractors...what's the scoop? in reply to D.L., 05-10-2002 22:32:36
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|  Some comments on the other comments : No lawn tractor will be able to last 3 years brush hogging 5 acres unless it costs as much as a real tractor - the cheap ones will start falling apart in a year - I know by experience. An 8N is not a toy, and is actually a very good brush-hogging and grading tractor. It's one weakness is the lack of live hydraulics (which the Jubilee has). These type of things do not need a live PTO, which some other people will tell you is a must-have. Unless you are doing heavy field work, an 8N is a good choice. I own 3 sizes of tractors : small, medium and large - AC G, Ford Jubilee, and an Oliver 1600. They all have their uses. Those 3020's and 4020's are WAY overpriced - you will get a much better bang for your buck with an Oliver or IH if you really need a big tractor. Also, getting on and off those big tractors will get old real quick, as they are much higher off the ground. A Jubilee is much more tractor than an 8N, and is just as good a tractor as a Massey 35 (or 135) - they're within 5 HP. Finally, Mr. Cosper keeps forgetting Saukville Tractors- a Made in America AC G replacement that is definately less than 100 HP.
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| Cosper to Bob
05-14-2002 20:18:03
152.163.195.187
4273
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Re: Re: Chinese tractors...what's the scoop? in reply to Bob Semrau, 05-11-2002 19:33:04
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| Bob,
I guess I'm gonna have to eat crow on that one.
I have never seen this tractor and did not know it existed.
Interesting though, but looks like a pain to mount implements.
Donald M. Cosper
Cosper Tractor and Implement
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| Bob Semrau
05-15-2002 09:04:03
198.208.223.35
4274
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Re: Re: Re: Chinese tractors...what's the scoop? in reply to Cosper to Bob, 05-14-2002 20:18:03
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| You're excused - it isn't exactly mainstream ...
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| D.L..
05-12-2002 11:42:39
209.99.124.62
4263
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Re: Re: Chinese tractors...what's the scoop? in reply to Bob Semrau, 05-11-2002 19:33:04
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| | Agreed on the riding mower. I have an 18HP/46" cut rider that I've been using for almost 7 years now (it's an MTD). It just can't handle the field hogging...it's made for cutting nice lawns, which my field definitely isn't. As long as I don't let it grow more than a few inches, I can get it done, but it takes a couple of days. Basically, a royal pain in the arse to do. I just let it grow up and borrow my neighbors IH 404 and hog it 2-3 times a year (in fact, I just did it yesteray). I'm not against something like a Jubilee, Ford 2000/3000, IH 404/414/etc or the like, as long as I can find one locally for a decent price, but that's part of my dilemma, there are no decently priced used tractors locally (or at least none that I wouldn't have to sink more money into to make it run and work good). Most of the old tractors don't have power steering either....something that is an absolute must for me. I also require a dual stage clutch as a minimum as well. I have a ditch out front that I can't drive in and need to be able to back up to, park the shredder over it and cut it down. Either dual stage clutch or another method of changing gears, or direction on the tractor without having to spin down the PTO, change gears, reverse, park shredder over area to be cut, go to neutral, spin up PTO, cut, spin PTO down, move tractor, repeat process for the next 5 feet). I can do it on the IH 404 I use, but it's very time consuming and a pain in the arse because of the single stage clutch. Looking at the net, I see wonderful deals on used tractors in places like Kentucky and Tennessee (found a Ford 3000, diesel, power steering, excellent shape for $4000), but then I have the problem of getting the tractor here. Either an expense to pay someone to get it here or a long road trip that I don't have the time or money to do. Right now I am seriously considering the Mahindra 4500 and a 6ft shredder. The loader I am still thinking about. Granted, it is 2-3 times the cost of an old used tractor, but then again, it is brand new, has a 3 year warranty, local support at 4 different dealers and I know that everything on it works and it has everything I want. Regardless of what I do, I will be taking out a loan for the tractor, and the differences in the payment on $5000 or $14000 I can handle (just stretch the $14000 loan out longer). Some have suggested a 90HP tractor (referring to my future of 30+ acres in PA). I'm not going to be farming the land, only hogging some of it and doing driveway maint/snow removal type work). I dunno, like I said, I am new to tractors in general and still open to suggestions and still looking around. I don't want something I will need to dump more money into, has the power and features I need, but not overkill. Heck some have said definitely 4WD insted of 2WD, but I'm not sure I need 4WD...how much better pulling power are we talking here? And if significant, how applicable is it to my needs? I suspect it's going to take me a fair amount more time before I actually decide. This isn't a toy I'm looking to buy, so I want to be sure that what I do get is going to do what I need it to do with a minimum of fuss. Thanks to all for the input so far.
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| Robert in W. Mi.
05-12-2002 14:57:56
208.32.169.242
4264
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Re: Re: Re: Chinese tractors...what's the scoop? in reply to D.L.., 05-12-2002 11:42:39
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| AWD (some call it 4wd) will add a huge amount of pulling power to a tractor, BUT unless you plan to buy a loader, have mud, or will be plowing deep snow, i say you don't need it!!
I still think you'd be better off with a new(er) tractor than an old one as suggested by some posters. You will out grow an old tractor, or will always wish you had paid the difference for the new one on down the road of ownership!! I have both, and i just plain got sick of working on older stuff when i needed to be out getting something done instead!!
Robert
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| Gerald J.
05-11-2002 16:44:03
63.175.164.207
4261
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Re: Chinese tractors...what's the scoop? in reply to D.L., 05-10-2002 22:32:36
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| | Go to a home center and buy a riding lawn mower for now. It will last at least three years. You'll need something that size for trimming on the 30 acre patch anyway. When you get to PA, look for a 50 to 90 HP field tractor, like a JD3020 or 4020. There are more of them around than there are NEW Chinese tractors and they bring less than the Ford Jubilee and similar sized utility tractors and will do a great deal more work. I've had an 8N and a MF-135 (which did real work) and now I use my 4020 for my patch, about 25 acres in row crop cultivation. The 8N was a toy. I'm sure it served better than a team of horses on some farms, but compared to all the other tractors its a toy. Gerald J.
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| Cosper Tractor/Burleson, Texas
05-11-2002 16:27:45
152.163.197.84
4260
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Re: Chinese tractors...what's the scoop? in reply to D.L., 05-10-2002 22:32:36
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| D.L.
$4000 for a Jubilee???
I am in the wrong market!
My advice is to stay away from the "Grey Market" tractors.
Mahindra tractors are as good as the next tractor if you have a good dealor to support you and your tractor.
Despite what many say, there are NO tractors manufactured in the USA under 100 hp or so.
In fact, I dont think there is an American manufacturer building there own tractors in there own factory. They are built by another manufacturer for them.
I know Massey is built by Tafe and Ursus and you can purchase the same tractor for less money under the Tafe and Ursus name.
Zetor builds some of John Deeres tractors, and the list goes on.
A new tractor is probably the way to go if you are new to the tractor culture because if you don't know whats going on a person can get ripped pretty easilly.
Even experienced dealors get it put to them on occasion.
I hope this helps,
Donald M. Cosper
Cosper Tractor and Implement
Burleson, Texas
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| Robert in W. Mi.
05-11-2002 10:24:32
208.32.170.155
4259
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Re: Chinese tractors...what's the scoop? in reply to D.L., 05-10-2002 22:32:36
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|  First of all, don't try to lump the chinese tractors with anyone else!! They are in a class of their own, and ARE the bottom of the bucket!!
I do know several owners of chinese tractors, and they now wish they had spent more $$ and got a tractor made in Japan, or Korea, or ??. YES, there is a HUGE difference.
My best advice is, to sit down and decide what you need this tractor for, and buy one that will fit the job!! Price be dammed!!
IF you plan on doing much work on 30+ acres, i don't think a compact is for you!!!
I do agree that "most" of the time, buyers would be better off with a newer or new tractor than and oldie!
Robert
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| ming
07-25-2002 10:07:01
64.91.122.89
4774
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Re: Re: Chinese tractors...what's the scoop? in reply to Robert in W. Mi., 05-11-2002 10:24:32
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| Could you let me know what do the owners of the Chinese tractors complain about their Chinese tractors?
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| Please reduce the resolution of your pictures.
06-11-2002 20:46:46
208.61.59.151
4489
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Re: Re: Chinese tractors...what's the scoop? in reply to Robert in W. Mi., 05-11-2002 10:24:32
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| they look good and very large but even viewing the page at 1024x768 i have to scroll from side to side to read the text. That is just a pain in the .... well you know where.
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| VaTom
05-11-2002 04:29:13
64.4.122.166
4258
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Re: Chinese tractors...what's the scoop? in reply to D.L., 05-10-2002 22:32:36
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| | I have a compact that I'm told is a Case with a different paint job. When I went to the Case dealer they threw me out. Mine's an orphan and one front seal turned out to be common to a Kubota that the Kubota dealer was happy to supply. But only possible if I knew the KUBOTA part number (I did). It's not so much engine parts you'll be needing as elsewhere. Here in central Va. The Mahindra dealer is a sleaze-ball that goes through a new idea every 9 months and drops whatever he was previously pushing. Kind of a problem for the consumer. Nothing against Mahindras but I wouldn't touch one for that reason. Now they're starting to push "custom" wheels and tires. Not much to do with tractor sales.
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| Woodbeef
05-11-2002 03:36:36
206.186.52.68
4256
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Re: Chinese tractors...what's the scoop? in reply to D.L., 05-10-2002 22:32:36
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| For the best answers to your questions,go over to Tractorbynet. It is a compact oriented board.
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